DS4A (Auf Zu #1)

Armel Presselin & Stéphane Lempereur, 2 HC-punx from Angers (France) did this zine. I only got to see one issue; although a second one was announced: perhaps there was only this one? #1 had also interviews with ‘Freak Show’ (band from Malaga, Spain) and ‘Nahda’ (gig-collective from, Poitiers, France); columns & reviews. Armel played bass in ‘Parkaj Mental’ (a jazzy punk outfit) and did Palmi/BCT tape-label & distro. I met him a few times at the Vort’n Vis. Stéphane ran Calavera mailorder/distro/label.

In the first half of the 90s I got quite a few publications for Tilt! distro from DS4A (Doesn’t Stand For Anything), a big (anarchist) mailorder/distribution located in Bristol (postal address in the Greenleaf bookshop). I think I got to know them (Dave Carter & Dean) through the Read It/Eat (Sh)It zines (which I distributed after an introduction by C.O.R.’s Tim Bennett or Manic Ears’ Shane Dabinett, who I’d met in the St. Pauls park squat in Bristol)…

[Translation below]

Dave of DS4A answered the questions; he takes care of (amongst other things) a huge distribution for books, zines, tapes, records, clothing, videos and CDs (unfortunately!). But I advise you to get the catalog, it will especially interest those who don’t just listen to music: they got a lot of stuff in English to read! Otherwise Dave also edits a zine: READ IT whose n° 7 is out. (For more details on the zine see reviews). I confess that I was in a hurry when I did this interview and that I regret some questions, others might have been more interesting; a next time perhaps…

Very original question: When did DS4A begin? Who started it? How many people are involved?

DS4A was started by Dean in 1988 in a moderate apartment in front of St. Paul’s [area in the centre around St Paul’s church] in Bristol. Dave arrived shortly after, he did a zine called EAT SHIT; we joined forces! Then Suzy of Active Distro, in London, came to Bristol, she played a big role in DS4A, from the old distro to the monster it is now! Respect to her! Now DS4A is just Dean/Dave but we’re very much connected with Words Of Warning records [label ran by Karl Horton, based in Newport, Wales], co-releasing the LP/CD by ‘Blaggers ITA’, the 12”/CD by ‘Dub War’, the Mind Pollution compilation CD [W.O.W. 1991] and with a new mini-LP/CD/tape by ‘Dub War’ to be expected. This cooperation is very effective and helps to realise the work to be done, in the situation that where we are in…! DS4A has a lot of friends who helped us when we needed them. A great hello to Olly, Andy, Lisa, Martin, Mat, Carl, Bristol Class War, Kirsty and Kelly.

I have the impression that you sometimes make profits by selling items, why? Don’t you think it’s stupid behavior for an anarchist fighting against capitalism?

We never put a penny in our pockets here at DS4A, even though we print 10.000 big catalogs per year, travel across the country to do stalls (where there are no anarchist stalls), pay for pencils, envelopes, tapes and the endless costs of stationery; DS4A must create funds to pay for this. We are both unpaid and don’t have the ability to do all this independently, but DS4A is a unit that is governing itself. The remaining money is used as donations to ABC [Anarchist Black Cross; political prisoners support], Class War [anarchist group and newspaper] and anti-fascist groups. So, not really profits, just enough to be able to run DS4A and that it can keep going. Stupid behavior for anarchists? (Editor’s note: The second part of the question no longer makes much sense after these explanations.) If we were wealthy, spoiled kids, perhaps we would be able to lose money and give things away. We think it’s “stupid behavior” when anarchists have to justify themselves whenever they use money to communicate their politics, rather than staying in a ghetto, stagnating.

I noticed that you sell CDs through DS4A, why don’t you boycott them; they’re enormously polluting, it’s more expensive and Philips/Sony gather the money on each CD sold (they have the patent), these are filthy multinationals involved with – among other things – military equipment. So why? Do you think anarcho-punks really need a perfect sound?

Records are made from oil. The oil-companies are not good anarcho-cooperatives! Anyone distributing records in stores in Italy, Australia, Asia, etc. has links with EMI or EFA; capitalism is the problem; after all, aren’t records and CDs not consumer-products? We think it’s unnecessary to distinguish a company, or a product, or a country; when it’s capitalism. Anyone employing, anyone taking part in a dirty disguised system that benefits first and foremost others. Including your health, the planet (Editor’s note: Why my planet?), your life. Anarcho-punk should leave the ghetto and pass on its ideas to other people; we don’t think it should be ‘underground’. It must be everywhere, on CD, on the radio, on TV, on the front-page of the newspapers and at the base, directly in your face, not hiding in small dark rooms. ‘Making Punk A Threat Again’? (Profane Existence)

You seem to be very much involved in Class War. What do you do for them, do you agree with all their goals? Why are you against the cops, they’re not rich, they don’t make a lot of money? (Do not get me wrong: I can’t stand them, like any sensible person I hate them but you wanted a provocative question so…)

YES. NO COMMENT. Because they’re the army of the rich, their role is to maintain the social order, leaving us in our place – FUCK THAT! (Editor’s note: In any case: good answer.)

Are you involved in other good organisations? (like ABC, ALF,…) Why? How?

We are involved in ABC-groups, anti-fascist groups, squatt-groups. By handing out leaflets, giving money, going to demonstrations, increasing the political profile! ALF [Animal Liberation Front] are middle-class people with no intelligence (irresponsible) following a false trail! (Editor’s note: Oh, I get the impression that they’re not concerned with the struggle for animal-rights, a very disappointing and stupid answer. It’s part of the same struggle and there are obvious links.)

Do you know of anti-fascist organisations in France? Which ones?

The only group we’ve heard of and seen is IWA [International Workers’ Association; international federation of anarcho-syndicalists] in France as well as in a few shops…

(You live in England; I also think this is an important question:) What do you think of the problem in Ireland? Do you agree with the autonomists? With the IRA and its methods (terrorism…)? Why do you think the media wants us to believe that this is a religious conflict when in fact it isn’t really one? Tell me all you can about this problem…

Ireland is far too important to discuss here. Northern-Ireland is a police-state. Go and see for yourself. I’ve never been there. We suggest reading Spirit Of Freedom [book on the war in Ireland (1989)], published by Attack International.

Would you participate in actions that you think are rightful even if you know that they’re risky and you may get imprisoned for it?

NO.

Now one other original and uninteresting question (ah ah). Do you think you will continue for a long time?

YES.

You seem to agree with violent action (even if innocents get killed?). Do you think that violence is the right solution against capitalism, fascism, sexism and all this shit? What do you think of the article in Profane Existence n° 18 on armed punks?

We’re in a society of violence, led by the police, the fascists, anyone who follows society. We’re not into terrorism, elitist actions are not for the people but for the ‘political party program’. Violence has its place and you shouldn’t be afraid to use it. “Elitist terrorists are vanguard by very nature.” (Editor’s note: Sorry we couldn’t translate this sentence, if anyone can, it would be nice to write us!). The article in Profane Existence is a very American article, the US has a gun-culture, everyone has one, the police, the nazis, politicians, madmen, everyone has one! It’s a very different culture than in France and in England; so it is very hard to comment!

Alright. Now you can say anything you want!

First off: thank you for the interview (Editor’s note: I thank you for everything!) You wanted controversial answers and you got them! DS4A would like to thank all those who write to us, all those who sent material, the bands we work with and all our friends. DS4A plans to publish a few books and brochures; we have already re-pressed Last Of The Hippies from the booklet of the Christ album by ‘Crass’, the story of Wally Hope and the Stonehenge Festival. The Read It – Eat shit fanzine hasn’t stopped. Issue #7 (the latest) is now available with ‘Blaggers ITA’, ‘Corpus Vile’, ‘No Means No’, lots of political articles and reviews. Expect a new zine by DS4A / Words Of Warning somewhere in 1994… Our next record is a split with W.O.W.; a new mini-LP by ‘Dub War’. To receive our extensive catalog send an IRC to: DS4A / BOX 8 / Greenleaf bookshop, 82 Colston street, BRISTOL, AVON, BS1 5BB / UK.

INSTRUCT, AGITATE, ORGANISE. Respect!

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E-150 (It’s Raining Truths #4)

The zine was done by Pytrik Schafraad, a guy from ‘s-Hertogenbosch (Den Bosch, The Netherlands). He did 4 issues between 1997 & 2000. I believe I only saw #2 & #4. The www tells us he focussed “on band-interviews and articles on various political topics with a personal perspective”. Issue two was subtitled ‘hardcore against homophobia’ and contained interviews with ‘97a’, ‘Reaching Forward’, ‘Driven’ & ‘Palatka’, plus opinions and zine-reviews (with help from Pieter Dobbelsteen of Sculpture zine). Issue four has a bunch of columns, heaps of zine-reviews and talks with ‘Mainstrike’, Robert of Commitment recs, ‘Avail’ & this one here…

Later (from 2000 on) Pytrik did RE/fuse zine with a bunch of other folks (incl. Marcel Palijama of Coalition recs). Nowadays he investigates the influence of press-releases of big (Dutch) corporations on the news, at the Department of Corporate Communication of the University of Amsterdam.

I never got to see ‘E-150’ (from Barcelona) play live. They played (furious HC with Spanish lyrics) in Belgium for the first time at the 2001 Ieperfest, I believe. A pity ’cause I would’ve liked them. They were a political band with attitudes/ideas similar to ‘Los Crudos’, ‘Seein’Red’ & ‘Sin Dios’… “Las palabras punk y negocio siempre se darán de hostias. No es por dinero, es contra él.” (“Punk and business will always clash. It’s not for the money, it’s against it.”) The music was labeled as powerviolence/crust. Members of the band were Abraham Elaidi (vocals; in the beginning drums), ‘Italiano’ Jose Luis Domínguez (vocals), ‘Beni’ Ben C Martinez (guitar), ‘Peach’ Carlos Torres (drums) & Elías Egido (bass). They did a split-EP (with ‘Ivich’ ) for Stonehenge recs and had several releases on Don’t Belong.

Wendy-O-Matic (Spectacle #4)

Theo Witsell (Litlle Rock, Arkansas) has a university-degree in ecology & environmental science and works in biodiversity conservation. While still studying he published half-a-dozen issues of the “smart punx’ journal of dissident knowledge”: Spectacle, a respected, thoughtful and widely read zine. It was always great to find his smart letters in the mail and I was glad I could help distribute his publications. He sold copies of my zine through his “non-profit, D.I.Y. literature distribution service” (Tree Of Knowledge). Theo did Spectacle from 1993 to 1999) and Tree of Knowledge from 1996 to 1999.

I never got to see his first 2 issues. #2 (1994) was a compilation of articles, comics and drawings done by many different people. (Subjects: childhood, religion, Theo’s reasons for being vegan, punk-rock, biodiversity, Zapata, etc.) There was also an interview with ‘J Church’…

Spectacle #3 (1995) contained lengthy talks with the Canadian band ‘Propagandhi’ & photographer Andy Strivers, a comic by Ben Nichols and writings on frat-fun, why big corporations are bad news, ‘work will set you free’, political prisoner Mark Curtis, etc. It came with a small booklet ‘Ahimsa – A Comprehensive D.I.Y. Guide To Non-Violent Revolution In The Kitchen’ (issue #3.5) that dealt with veganism, health & ecology.

In Spectacle #4 (1996) Theo reflects on being called ‘sell-out’ and ‘adult’. I cite: “The zine’s low key but attractive and easy-to-read design reflects contents which have also been put together with care: short essays on adulthood and idealism, pictures from a weekend caving-trip with two pre-teen cousins, accounts of junior high pranks and thoughts about a semi-rural house/punk rock retreat he lived in which was encroached upon by developers. There are also interviews with an ex-roommate (about his friend’s train-hopping adventures) and with poet/activist Wendy-O-Matic, as well as ten columns by other people, including a prisoner in Indiana, a Belgian zine-editor, a young woman whose parents just broke up and even the editor’s artist mother. Hearteningly cynicism-free.”. Spectacle #4.5 is a diary of Theo’s traveling across the U.S. and up to Canada. That was originally intended as tour-diary of ‘Scout’, the band he used to play bass in.

Spectacle #5 (1999) was a split with Jen Angel’s Fucktooth #24: “A collaborative effort examining the effects of technology (& its corporate control) on our lives and the world.”. A review goes: “The writers do an excellent job breaking down large issues into clear, concise essays. Jen starts with the luddites, and the class and social issues concerning technology. Other topics include hacking, nuclear arms in Israel, lifestylism, the media, biotechnology and computers. There are interviews with two young people trying to make a difference, both of which are interesting and hope inspiring. Excellent writing that teaches, agitates and inspires.”.

Of course the content of Spectacle was very interesting but the layout of Theo’s zines was also always neat. In a booklet entitled Tips For Zine Geeks he explained The Art of Making Zines (content – design – printing – distribution).

In Jen Angel’s later zine Clamor it was announced that Theo was working on a project documenting “the biological and cultural diversity being lost to urban sprawl” but that never came to fruition. He did a single issue of EcoZine about conservation-biology and environmental activism with his friend Chris(topher) Tracey.

As an example of Theo’s work I re-publish the interview he did with Wendy-O Matik (Wendy Millstine), the wellknown writer (e.g. Redefining Our Relationships: Guidelines for Responsible Open Relationships), poet, performance- & spoken word artist and radical love activist.

Final Exit (Reinforced #1)

This band (from Umeå, Sweden) was a side-project of ‘Refused’. Dennis Lyxzén played bass, Anders Johansson (ex ‘SaidIWas’) guitar, David/Dave Sandström (drummer of ‘Refused’) was the vocalist and Pär Hansson (ex ‘Abhinanda’ hit the drums). They had a couple of releases (some on Desperate Fight recs). After 2 albums (Teg, in 1994, and Umeå, in 1997), they “felt like there was no place in the world” for them because they were (according to themselves) “too real” and didn’t want to take part in “today’s fake scene”. Final Exit disbanded in 1997.

They were interviewed here by a kid (at that time aged 16) from Gislaved (Sweden), named Pär Fridholm. Reinforced was a straigh-edge zine and this issue contained interviews (also with ‘Frodus’ & ‘Turmoil’), guest-columns and reviews. Later he became the bassist of the band ‘8 Days Of Nothing’. Some of his friends helped im out (e.g. Daniel ‘Fagge’ Fagerström, guitarist of ‘8 Days Of Nothing’). Don’t know if there was a follow-up…

Teo Petričević (Semtex #4)

Semtex was the zine of Thomas Byttebier (at that time residing in Harelbeke, nowadays “freelance digital designer” living Ghent). In the zine he states: >>I see zines as a form of meaningful resistance. They’re bound together by critical striving for their ideals. An ideal that tells us what culture and society might be…or at least ought to be. Off course there are no rules for making a hardcore-punk zine but zines have in common that they are an alternative to and a strike against commercial culture and consumer capitalism.<< Because he didn’t really seem to put that in practice (ads for commerical labels), I decided against distributing it…

This #4 (2000) was co-edited by Bram Cluyse (Heartwell zine & Sub Fakt Four recs – non-profit DIY label for noise/experimental sounds); nowadays known as ‘Kluze(hellion)’ (vocalist of ‘Black Haven’), and a guy named Koen. There’s a bunch of reviews, an article on genetic engineering and decent interviews with Emil Björkander (‘Children Of Fall’ bassist & the label Black Star Foundation), Stef Goos (drummer of ‘Vuur’ & Splinter newsletter) and this one here with Teo Petričević. This is the only issue I’ve seen. I read that #3.5 was a split with Kristof Mondy’s zine Yoda, and probably there was a #5…

The person interviewed here, Croatian Teo Petričević (originally from Mursko Središće, moved to Zagreb), started writing me somewhere in the late 90s and I helped distribute his zine You & Me. He was also the singer of the band ‘Outré’. The first issue of his zine was in Croatian; n°s 2-4 were done between 1997 & 2002. Yours truly was interviewed in #2. The zine was a vehicle for his interest in HC/punk, ecology, feminism, sexuality, etc. Nowadays Teo is a director of ACT Grupa, a “community of social entrepreneurs and social economy incubator”.

 

Mel Hughes (Intense Voice #2)

Myself and Mel Hughes (Northern-Ireland / Ulster) exchanged letters for quite a while and distributed each other’s zine. The Network Of Friends; if anyone remembers… He was also sXe, supportive of DIY and anti-consumerist, and also ran a mailorder. He was still doing No Barcodes Necessary at the time of this interview. If I remember correctly, he did 7 issues (1993-98). An issue of Direct Hit followed later right after (’99) and that continued on-line for a few years. Direct Hit came with a split-7″ Active Minds/Urko and that was the start of Mel’s label Direct Hit recs (4 split-EPs in total).

The interviewer, Florian Gemmrig, was also a corresponent of mine. He did Intense Voice together with his mate Matze Walz (both living near Stuttgart). This second issue also featured the bands ‘Texas Is The Reason’ & ‘Strife’; besides an article on terrorism, some short stories & columns, a tour-report, an article on Amnesty International and reviews…

Brob

I believe we correspondended, probably because of your distribution, but as far as I remember we also exchanged letters about life, music and scene-stuff. My motivation for doing the zine was being part of a DIY culture which was a big thing to me when I got in touch with hardcore. We did 2 issues around 95-96; I was pretty young (15-16) at that time. We interviewed ‘Refused’, ‘For Her Sake’ (a local band) & ‘End In Sight’ for the first issue.

Florian Gemmrig

Coche Bomba (Antipoder #9)

Antipoder (‘Against Authority’) was a follow-up to No Flag – both zines were done by my correspondent ‘Uge’ (Eugenio García Escudero) from Gijon (Asturias, Spain). ‘Uge’ played guitar in ‘Intolerance’ and ‘Strangis Guajes’; plus a few other bands. He also ran the record-labels Xunca recs and Don’t Belong. Nowadays he’s in charge of Throne recs (metal) and works as a DJ at a local pub.

He distributed my zine and  and visited me when traveling to Willy ‘Hiatus’ in Liège… A lot of the things he published were in Spanish so hardly anyone over here could read it.  He also did another zine later (Ilegal) but I never got to see that… This issue of Antipoder was meant as a split-zine (together with Love And Flowers, by Fidel) but became a cooperative project aiming to reach more (non-Spanish speaking) people and to encourage readers to become more active. Contents? Various columns (in English & Spanish), an interview with a butcher-turned-vegetarian, a lengthy piece with opinions on drugs/legalisation, another one entitled Nationalism & Sexuality (both in Spanish); interviews with bands such as ‘Cress’, ‘Muff Potter’; reviews and more…

The other issues of Antipoder I have, are jam-packed with interviews with ‘Hiatus’, ‘Selfish’, ‘Resist’, ‘Health’ Hazard’, and info on SOA recs, ‘No Security’ & ‘Huasipungo’ (#1, 1994); ‘Fleas & Lice’, ‘Disaffect’, ‘One By One’, Disfear’ (#2/3, 1994); ‘Subcaos’, ‘Varukers’, ‘Rood Arch’, and info on ‘Headache’, etc. (#4/5, 1994-95) – to mention just a part of the contents…

I saw ‘Coche Bomba’ (from Lyon, France) perform at the Vort’n Vis (95-09-16). They played fast & brutal crusty hardcore-punk: 2 vocalists (political lyrics in French, English & Spanish) – Ivan Brun & Jean-Pierre ‘J.P.’ Davila, 2 guitarists – André & ‘Gork’, bassist Cécile (also in ‘Dirt’; she replaced Christoff) and drummer Steph Coi. They had recorded a demo (95-06-03; still with Christoff) and there was a split-7” out with Enola Gay (Fra) on Bad Card recs 1995. The 7″ Viva La Derelicción was recorded May ’96 with André, Cécile, Ivan, J.P. & Steph). This interview was with J.P., André, Ivan (bass at that time) and Steph. They had some line-up changes but kept going well into the noughties and did several tours (also Latin-America, etc.).

Nowadays Ivan Brun is a pretty wellknown cartoonist, comic book writer & painter; also check his blog sickfuckermagazine.blogspot for more of his work and info on the band… Also JP Davila is still doing graphic art.

Brob

I think I did 6 issues of Antipoder; all of them in Spanish. 4~5 being a double issue… and the 6th a split issue with Love And Flowers (the only one being pro-printed). Could it be? [The cover reads Antipoder #9 – Love And Flowers #4] I lost all my old zines at the CSA raid, back in the late 90s, so my memory fails… Love & Flowers was done by my old friend Fidel… That was more a personal/emotive zine than Antipoder but we wanted to try something new by arranging a split issue… Looking back now, I think we were able to get rid off 1.000 copies (that was the minimum print-run for a pro-printed zine back at the time) and we managed! That’s a small accomplishment in my eyes. Antipoder started as 50/50 % music (mainly crust – as it was my passion back in the early 90s) and animal-liberation/anarchist politics. As years went by, my politics became more personal and nowadays I keep my political views personal but don’t usually mix these with music. I’m not that much interested in using music as a vehicle for politics anymore. I prefer music to be a vehicle for emotions and re-connection to nature/avoiding humans.

‘Uge’

After Love & Fowers, I continued doing other fanzines: Ilegal, and Antipatia, that a good friend and I did – a free newsletter (for 6 years, one per month)…

Fidel

[Translation – Miguel Angel Lorca / Dieter Roefs – below]

‘CocheBomba’ stayed at my place for five days and we shared experiences and life lessons. Let’s say they weren’t very lucky during their tour in North Spain, due to last-minute canceled gigs and poor assistance of people. I felt really sorry I had to bring them the bad news; I felt somehow responsible as I was the organiser of most dates of their tour. It’s a pity as they deserve better. Often we don’t appreciate things at the time. Let’s allow time to make things right.

Uge: Well, an introduction for the people who don’t know anything about ‘CocheBomba’, who don’t know who you are, what you do,…

JP: Well, we are from France (Lyon)… We’re 4 people: Jean-Pierre [Davila] on vocals, André on guitar, Ivan [Brun] on bass and Steph on drums. Thanks (laughs)… The ideas of the band… Ah, we’re a band that plays, that likes hardcore and…we’re not politically correct (laughs), at last we don’t try to be. We’re more or less normal people and…well, we play where we are accepted, nothing more.

Uge: Last year you were over here too and…for various reasons the tour…got interrupted…was over before it was supposed to be, some gigs got canceled, there were rumors and blablabla, all that… I know the part I was told but I want to ask the version of the band, which I guess will be the true one…and I want it to be explained in the zine to, to… To let people know what really happened and to stop the gossiping about things, no?

JP: Well…we had a bit of bad luck due to, as you said, 3 canceled gigs, some technical or organisational problems in some places… and all that built-up pressure that ended in a discussion between Cécile and the guy that drove us, the driver, Cristophe. She decided to leave – not to leave the band but to leave the tour – because this guy was…euhm, couldn’t stand the tour, right? He wasn’t familiar with the hardcore scene and all that, the squats… It all got a bit on his nerves and… It was very difficult…the relationship between Cécile and him, no? That helped to cause a row between them and she decided to leave the tour. She didn’t leave the band… something like that, no? She decided to quit…stop traveling in the van because they had argued, she just argued with this guy…she had nothing against ‘CocheBomba’.

Uge: So… If you want to say something through this publication, to say something to the people, who – in theory – you let down or the people who got a bit annoyed with you… If you want to say something or if you want to deny something…

JP: Well, no… After the tour we have exchanged letters with Miguel Angel (Lorca; ed.) and luckily, well… All these feelings and all that have passed, no? Because he said to me: “It’s nobody´s fault.”. He literally wrote that and…well… People from Burgos and Bilbao…due to the problem with…Cristophe wanted to leave us behind there with all the material… Also, for us it was…very bad to go through all this, stopping the tour due for such a stupid problem, no? Human relationships and…well, I think that… We apologize to the people for not being able…to play. But it was something completely beyond our control.

Uge: You were over here last year and now you’re again, touring the North of Spain (Asturias & Euskadi)…after the bad taste it left in your mouth last year, what made you want to return and what differences do you see between last year and this year,  in case there’s some difference?

JP: Well, we already came back in May of this year for two 2 concerts in Barcelona and Selrá and… Because, we like the people over here a lot (laughs)… Also: it’s a way to explain the problems we had, no? It’s a pity that in Burgos they didn’t welcome us to play…

Uge: Do you mean that this tour could have served to clear things up…?

JP: Explaining things in a more clear way; so that’s why we wanted to come here to the North of Spain. And to Euskadi and all that. Well, the only difference we can see is that…things aren’t too good, no? Similar to what’s happening, more or less, in whole Europe (Germany, France), when the squat-movement politically gets shattered… People have a lot… They’ve created so many different things: symbols or attitudes or different kind of things, that helps to divide people more too, no? Well, but, I think this tour… Also, when I’ve written you to ask you… You accepted because you knew us, more or less, and you realise we haven’t… That we weren’t as the rumors that you had heard, no? You were surprised that some things happened… Problems during the tour when you met us and…we behaved properly in your house and… That also was… Coming back was kind of, as I said you, clearing things up…

Uge: The question is… No-one in the band is vegetarian nor vegan now… Knowing that, I suppose that you want your ideas to be respected… What would you tell to people who say that you deserve no respect because you don’t respect the life of animals, do you know what I mean?

Steph: First, I think vegetarianism is about personal feelings…

Ivan: …Personal choice…

Steph: Personal choice… And I think that hardcore is not about judging others but doing things by ourselves, so if people don’t want to respect me because I eat meat… Well I don’t care, why should I care? Because I can’t do nothing… People are free to be vegetarian or not. If you…base your relationship just on that one thing, I think it’s a bit stupid.

Ivan: Hardcore is tolerance before all… It’s a matter of tolerance. Respect is about tolerating people’s choices.

JP: For my part… Well, I think that they have said almost…completed what we truly, more or less, feel… I’ve tried to be vegetarian for some time and finally, I don’t know… Because of my meat-consuming habit, because of my childhood and all that, has been, maybe…that hasn’t helped, no? But well, if I’m not respected because I eat meat, so what? Anyway there are many people that don’t respect you and not only because you don’t eat meat…

Steph: I’ve never been vegetarian myself. I think the idea of not eating animals is a good idea. Maybe I’ll be vegetarian myself one day, I don’t know, but for now I’m not ready to take on that way of life, so I prefer not to try or to stop eating meat for one month and then eat meat again… I think when I’ll be ready for it maybe I’ll quit meat, but for now definitely not.

Ivan: Yeah, I think it’s easy to quit eating meat but it’s a matter of choice… As for me: I don’t eat meat everyday, because of the price, because it’s quite expensive and also it’s quite easy to take the food in the shops. I take…cheap things… For me food is not important.

André (JP translates from French): He’s aware of what’s happening, the slaughterhouses, the money and all that…multinationals… These are things that make you think, no? If there are people with the will to be vegetarian, that’s very good. Maybe I don’t have much will to stop eating meat due to the education I had. As Steph said: I try to eat less meat than before… He keeps eating meat but now he pays attention to what he’s eating… Yes, he cares about it.

JP: For me it is the same. For example… I never go to…a supermarket to buy 20.000 pork-chops wrapped in plastic… I have a friend who comes from the countryside, so all products are from the farm. You know where they come from. Not… They’re not coming from a multinational or anything like that. We pay more attention to this, to avoid contributing to…a certain massacre that you don’t like.

Uge: According to what you say Ivan, that you usually buy only cheap things to eat, that you don’t mind too much about eating; you know that usually the cheapest things are really junk-food… You know what I mean? So, you know that eating mostly junk-food is bad for your health. The question is: How do you balance the price of the food and your health? If you don’t mind too much about your health or… How do you balance that things?

Ivan: Yeah, I know the price of your health, of your life is more important that the cost of eating, yeah (laughs)… To me, my health is not important. Yeah, I’ll probably die at 40 or 45 or 60 years of age. Yes. What’s the difference…we die in the end? I’m not giving a lot of importance to this… Yeah, and about the future… What will the future be? (laughs)

Uge: Do you think there’s no future?

Ivan: Oh, yes, I think there will be a future. It could be really worse than now. I really believe that it will be really worse, like…political problems, dictatorships, less and less freedom, more and more control of people’s mind, things like that. I really believe there will be the future…

Uge: I have a book that my mother borrowed me, it’s not from a ‘political’ author or a ‘radical’ author or anything like that. An ‘average’ writer that wrote a book 15 years ago, that dealt with how he thought the future was going to be. Then, when you read stuff written in 1980/81 about 1995/96… He’s dealing with a number of things that he thought were going to happen and that actually happened. I was really surprised, skipped some pages and read what he wrote about 2000, 2015… He wrote that an almost anarchist state was going to be reached, which was supposedly something beneficial because everything would be based on barter trade. I give you something and as an exchange you give me something. Because the currency was going to collapse, the whole capitalist system was going to fall down due to its own corruption, etc. So I was interested in knowing what you think the future is going to be. Do you think something like this could happen and…if you know or… For example: I know Ivan draws – would you rather exchange paintings for food, things like that… If you think that something like this could happen, if you would be willing to do everything as a barter trade… What do you think about this?

JP: Well… I also draw, like Ivan. I’m already exchanging (laughs). I, more or less, exchange my paintings; I even give them for free sometimes. I trade them for other paintings or for other things. And…I think Ivan wouldn’t be having any problem doing that if it truly has to be done… Practically we’re starting to do it. What we mostly do isn’t… How could I say it?… We are not known artists or anything like that, we try to become a little active doing things but without pretensions or anything like that… becoming Andy Warhol or (laughs) Basquiat [Jean-Michel Basquiat, an American artist], I don´t know… A piece of art by Basquiat is now worth a fortune, millions of dollars…

Ivan: Yes, millions of dollars for a little piece of art by Basquiat…

JP: Basquiat everywhere and so… Then if painting could become a currency of barter-trade; it would be better to be able to live by exchanging things instead of merely using money. And politicians use money for…everything…to tie-up all people…in the whole world.

Ivan: About that question… It’s kind of an utopia. I think the capitalist system will make a lot… It will take a lot, a long time to collapse. To fall. Maybe like the Roman empire, the decadence. It will take… It’s about 200 years of decline. So it’s a very slow process. I think right now, since the 80s, the beginning of the decline. The capitalist system is at its top and now it’s beginning to fall, to fall… It’s really a slow process…

JP: Many lies, to keep the capitalist system on the top, no? But it’s apparent that everything, politically everywhere, is a big fraud…

Uge: The Spanish government doesn’t give support to young people nor to old people; that means if you don’t have a job, you don’t get support or a house or a place to live for free like in England where you have the dole, the housing and everyone lives ‘OK’… So if you live here or in a country with even less money than here… If you had the choice to live, making enough money off ‘CocheBomba’ or with a label or a distribution… Would you do it or…? What do you think about this subject, do you think it’s selling out, corrupting or do you see it as something positive?

JP: The fact of living off the music that you make, I think that’s good, no? Because eventually… It would be like surviving, like working any other job, no? Of course, you can’t market your things, your… Truly becoming commercial in music, no? But living off your own music, I think, is correct. For example, there are many people that are musicians, that have self-sacrificed during their lives to have the satisfaction of living off their music…

Steph: I think that there’s no problem with living of our music as long as we put efforts and energy in it. I guess it is normal to get some…

Uge: …Something back…

Steph: …Something back. If you need money and if the only thing that you know is playing drums or playing guitar or screaming in a microphone, why not? I prefer living… earning a living playing than being in a factory, doing a shit job… But the goal with ‘CocheBomba’ is not about making money, it’s about not losing what we put in it…

André (Steph translates from French): André thinks we can’t gain enough money with ‘CocheBomba’ because it’s impossible…

Ivan: In the DIY and non- profit scene…

André (Steph translates from French): He says that it’s not possible to gain enough money with ‘CocheBomba’ while being in the DIY movement but he wouldn’t mind making money by teaching others how to play guitar… It’s what he’s doing now… And if you wanted to make big bucks with ‘CocheBomba’, we’ld have to change our attitude by asking more money to do a gig…

Iván: …Being professionals, but we are not professionals…

Uge: So, continuing about this subject: how do you earn a living in France, how do you survive, what does everyone do to live?

Ivan: I’m on welfare…what the state gives me, and also doing some paintings or stuff with… Making some money with drawings and stuff. So yeah…it’s not a regular job. I can’t get enough money to live from the drawings, so I have to take money from the state, from social welfare…

Steph: I work in an administration, I do the mail and my contract ends at the end of the year. I think then I will be in the dole too, like Ivan, on welfare…

JP: I take what the state gives me because I’ve worked the previous two years and after that I studied arts, which provided me a subsidy and that extended the duration of the unemployment welfare. Thanks to that I receive unemployment cheques from the state. And, well, I’m less lucky than Ivan: I sell less paintings than him (laughs)… Well, that’s how I survive. A bit of painting sometimes or otherwise whatever job I can get. Now I don’t know until what date I’ll get unemployment-benefits but after that maybe I’ll have to work or look for a job…

André (JP translates): André gives guitar-lessons in a cultural centre and sometimes he plays in a blues-band to earn a bit of money (laughs)… And also sometimes this… He goes… How is it called? To a scientific centre where he has his hair washed to (laughs)…test cosmetics (he has a very white skin). He is consequent, he knows animals are sacrificed, they do experiments, he goes through experiments himself, he’s like a guinea-pig (laughs).

Uge: Staying with this subject about living/not living off music and so: a moment ago you mentioned that you couldn’t live off the noise you make…and I told you that there’re very noisy bands, such as ‘Extreme Noise Terror’, that are completely living off it. As time goes by ‘average’ people listen to more extreme music. It started with heavy metal in the 80s, nowadays you can find this new wave of HC-Metal on MTV… I think, as a friend of mine (Chuto) said: ‘E.N.T.’ could be the new… MTV’s ‘Korn’ in two years’ time, the new trendy band on MTV. Do you think that there will a time when DIY music, such as hardcore, crust, grindcore, could become as famous as… That the only thing that could distinguish bands would be the attitude and that music could be the same?

JP: Yes, I think that could be like that. ‘Napalm Death’ appears on MTV, so … You can make people listen to music that becomes more and more violent, no? There are bands that are more violent than that: industrial noise and things like that, techno, that is noise itself… Well, we’re talking about HC, but it’s true that people listen to louder and louder stuff, no? I don’t know what extremes could be achieved? In the end of the century… But…perhaps some bands from the HC-scene will become really famous and will be aired on TV all the time. I remember when I arrived in France, all metal was very much discriminated against. And suddenly there was a radical change… There were many thrash-bands aired on TV, there’s a ton of commercial bands nowadays – melodic hardcore or ‘Theraphy?’, ‘Green Day’, ‘NoFX’ – that appear on TV or on compilation-CDs that get promoted everywhere. It looks like there’s a mystification of… several musical styles that are proclaimed as known at one time or another…

Ivan: Logically, such bands, crust-bands like ‘E.N.T.’ could be famous or commercial bands in the near future… Because of the provocative attitude, the screams and the stuff like this, it couldn’t be a commercial product, it couldn’t be considered a commercial product, in my opinion…

Steph: ‘Napalm Death’ is a kind of commercial product and you can hear it on the radio…sometimes on TV. I think that maybe in the near future violent HC bands could be the next big thing and… I don’t think that’s a problem as long as they stay true to the DIY ethics. You know? If the ideas of HC get spread into society, why not? Because some ideas are good: like vegetarianism or squatting, non-profit… Why not, if the bands stay underground, independent spirit…

Uge: Many people or many bands that are selling out nowadays, say that they do it to spread the message to a wider audience and… But it never works out because the people are just interested in music. And when ‘E.N.T.’ is on MTV screaming about “Think about it.” (about vegetarianism), I believe most of the people discovering ‘E.N.T.’ – who are not vegetarian – don’t mind what they say. So the question is: Do you think being in the mainstream media kills the message? It’s just as if once you’re there, people will only look for the music, they don’t care about anything else… Well, the music and the looks you have, because it’s like a trend to have ‘radical’ looks. Do you think that it’s the big failure of being at the top?

Steph: I think that most of the people is not áll the people. Perhaps if a band can bring 1, 10, 20, maybe more persons to the DIY scene, that’s good. In France there’s ‘Bérurier Noir’, you know? That band does lots of concerts, records; and by the end of the 80s they were very famous in France. That’s not a problem because if I didn’t get to listen to ‘Bérureir Noir’ maybe I wouldn’t be here today, you know? Of course not everybody will get the message, most of the people will be like: “Oh yeah, good record, oh yeah, nice clothes.”… But if 10 people think about it and they become active, I think it’s not bad…

Uge: So, in that sense: do you think it’s like necessary to have some bands on the top singing about such things; is it necessary for new people to come into?

Steph: I think one of the big problems about HC is that it´s very closed, you know?…

Uge: …A ghetto…

Steph: Yes, and like I said: there are good ideas in HC, about squatting, non-profit, etc. And if we stay in our ghetto, I guess nothing will change. If we spread some ideas then we can aim for some change. It’s perhaps utopic what I say but I think if you want to change things it’s not gonna be by singing “Aarggh, kill the bastards, kill the nazis.” at a punk-concert… Of course everybody will say yes, “Kill the nazis!” but that doesn’t mean anything, you know?

Uge: So the next question follows naturally: I want to ask every one of you how they got introduced into hardcore, into DIY; how did you start getting into this?

JP: Well, for me I… How could I say it… I took a big musical turn. I listened to ‘Queen’ and one day I got a record – Never Mind The Bollocks (laughs)… I’ve known punk in its heyday. During the 80s I got to know ‘Dead Kennedys’, ‘Germs’, ‘CIA’…all those bands from the end of the 70s/80s. After that I got into new-wave…

Uge: Is new wave ‘The Cure’ and all that?

JP: All that, yes, and after that I turned into old metal – Monsters Of Rock , like ‘Deep Purple’, ‘Led Zeppelin’, all that – and turned all that around listened to first thrash-metal bands (‘Exodus’, ‘Anthrax’, ‘Metallica’). Little by little, each time louder. ‘S.O.D.’ and things like that. And one day I met people who liked 80s HC. I didn’t really know it as I had walked away from it. I listened to things I hadn’t listened to before and… That’s how I started to get to know old bands that I hadn’t heard before. Like ‘State Of Alert’ and things like that… Most of them were from the American HC scene, that were unknown to me…

Steph: In the beginning I listened to new-wave and rock. Then some French bands like ‘Bérurier Noir’ and all kinds of punk; stuff like ‘Sex Pistols’, ‘Clash’ and the old punk from the 70s. Then ‘Crass’, ‘Conflict’ and some cool HC like ‘H.D.Q.’, ‘Senseless Things’ and things like that. Then HC, faster stuff each time, then crust, grind, sXe, lots of stuff…

Ivan: When I was a kid I wasn’t interested in music really, just listen to the radio, listen to the comercial stuff. But I wasn’t really into it. There were ‘free radios’ with radio-shows playing punk-music and alternative stuff, also some HC. That was back in 1986. I listened to that kind of stuff and it was really the thing that interested me because it was fast, loud… Sometimes really funny or provocative. So when I was a kid, I liked it a lot. I started getting into that kind of music and looking for fanzines, going to record-shops to buy these tapes or records. But at that time it was really difficult to find HC records beacuse it wasn’t popular at the time.

André (JP translates): He started with metal, with classic hard-rock, then a normal evolution, each time faster, more violent, thrash, speed, death… He’d listened to some old French punk bands like ‘Committerandsec’ [‘Komintern sect’ perhaps?] (laughs) (I don’t know how it is really written!!!; ed.), an old skunk-band. In the 80s in France there were a lot of punk/skin-bands, skunk. That’s how it was called back then…

JP: Well, I think that everyone has been forced to listen to that music at a moment in their lives (laughs) with Chaos Productions [80s punk and oi! label], a compilation including all these bands, called Chaos En France.

Ivan: Pure bullshit…

JP: (laughs) Pure bullshit, so you can get an idea of the hardcore movement of that period, no? Complete lack of ideas, violence, very retarded, no?

André (JP translates): He has listened to French punk. He preferred more metal, more hardcore and… Then he played in several metal, doom-death metal, grindcore bands… That’s the way he got into the DIY movement and ‘CocheBomba’…

JP: In ‘91 the 2 of us did something for a radio-station sometimes, where we played grind or brutal hardcore bands. Just before starting in ‘CocheBomba’. We already spread, more or less, the music, the spirit of “total resistance” (laughs)…

Uge: There are people that reject the music they used to hear 5/10/15 years ago, the music they first started to listen to. Do you reject it or you still like the same music even though sometimes you take it with some humour or with a bit of nostalgia… Do you keep liking it?

JP: For me the answer is yes. I respect all music I’ve listened to. Music is music and it’s important…recognising what has helped you to evolve. I won’t deny that I enjoyed, as I said, ‘Queen’ or ‘Kansas’ or what can I say…folk bands. What should I say now? That they are awful? No, I don’t deny the fact that I liked what I used to listen to, I’m not gonna say that I won’t listen to it ever again. As you say: I look back with some nostalgia and sometimes with many laughs. Some stuff is very funny, especially when you see the old metal record-covers, with the wigs (laughs) and things that way, yes…

Steph: For my part: I don’t deny what I listened to before; I don’t listen to all the bands I used to like but they are all a part of my life even if I don’t listen to them. If I think they sound like shit now, I still like them because I…

Uge: Is it like going back to those years?

Steph: Yeah, a memory, something to remember.

JP: Also… The old stuff and all that… There’s things I haven’t heard before and that I listen nowadays, new stuff for me, old bands that I like.

Uge: Stuff that you discover nowadays…

JP: Stuff that I discover nowadays. It’s very good there have been people listening that stuff in its heyday.

André (JP translates): He also admits that he enjoyed all kinds of bands, different music styles; that gave him sensations, vibrations. And if I don’t listen to these bands anymore nowadays that’s because his musical taste has evolved. In the past that music gave him things that just helped to become what he is…

JP: Besides that, now we are… Music-wise we know each other well; we accept each other music tastes. For example: we don’t restrict ourselves to just the HardCore genre; we like salsa music, free jazz, ethnic/aboriginal music. We also enjoy industrial noise, experimental music; Steph likes Boris Vian [French musician/singer] (laughs). We are more open to the universe, musically. We enrich our spirits quite well.

Uge: I want you to tell me about one commercial band (any kind of style) you like it a lot, and one DIY band you like it a lot… (laughs).

JP: Well… If I have to limit myself to just one band, it’s gonna be difficult. Ahhh… I don’t know. A band that is commercial and brutal, that has left a strong impression, is ‘Slayer’ for example, commercial music-wise… It’s even more difficult to choose a DIY band because there are many bands, too many bands. I don’t know, I’m gonna think about it… (pause) A DIY band that impressed me, on a music level, is ‘Man Is The Bastard’…

Steph: The commercial band should be ‘The Cure’ because I listened to ‘The Cure’ for… (Changing tape so missing some words. Oops!!! ed.) …Which is a very good LP. And as for DIY: I think like Jean-Pierre: ‘Man Is The Bastard’ is “bleuurgghh!!!”, ‘la bomba’!!! (laughter).

Ivan: Commercially something like Michael Jackson. As for DIY: something like ‘Confuse’ (laughter).

André (JP translates): He listens to ‘AC/DC’ without getting tired of it (laughs)…and ‘DropDead’…

Uge: You’ve been here, in Xixón, for some days and you were here also last year. Given the little you know about it: what remarkable differences do you find between Lyon and Xixón; city-wise, hardcore-scene, landscapes, everything…?

JP: Well, let’s say you’re very lucky as you’re close to the ocean (laughs). In Lyon, we are locked in by pollution. There’s a couple of rivers that cross the city: completely polluted… I think it’s very good here. I’ve enjoyed a lot visiting Villa because of the amazing landscape, very green. I think you’re lucky having a Social Centre where you can have activities. Because it’s not easy to get a Centre like that… Sometimes we’re out of luck: we would have liked meeting more people but what can we do? I think someday, maybe tonight, we’ll meet more people…

Ivan: As for the DIY scene: I think that in Spain the people are more into all the DIY bands and stuff. They follow that type of music more than in France. In France it’s a very small minority. Also, I believe there are less differences regarding landscapes and cities between what we have in France and what you have here. There’s more architectural differences. I think the towns in Spain are cleaner. It’s like in the big cities in Europe: there’s less differences…

André (JP translates): Lyon is a very bourgeois and right-wing town, and because of that it’s difficult to get a place, a Social Centre or something like that, because the municipality gives less cultural funding and all that; especially because of the mayor we have, a right-wing guy that always falls asleep… (laughs) …and well, there’s a difference there too, no? It’s difficult you see… For example: here in the weekend it’s a total party; on a normal weekend you can find bands playing live on the streets each 15 metres or so. That doesn’t happen in Lyon or in France, because that kind of culture is excluded in the minds of the French people. To them noise is just a very bad thing and all that makes them feel disturbed in their way of life. Culture is limited to opera, for the rich, and what else, all those kind of superficial things. Dance, and all that…

Ivan: There’s more popular movement here in Spain…

JP: Much more popular movement here…

Uge: So, knowing that, would you like to live here rather than in France?

JP: Euh…I’ld like to, live here, yes (laughs)… But…well, I’ve a family, so I can’t come here touring all the time, going around… going around (laughs)… No, I think there are many things that would make me want to live in this country.

André (JP translates): He prefers living in France because over there he can eat rice with tomato-sauce (big laughter).

Ivan: For me it doesn’t matter. I think there’s really no difference but I’d rather live in France because it’s the place where I was born… Kind of sentimental approach…

Steph: The same as Ivan and André. I prefer France because my family, my friends are there and I know more how things work in France. Maybe it would be great to stay here for 2 weeks but then…

JP: He wanted to refer to an expression in French, which is used when you miss your country.

Uge: Ah, yes, homesickness.

André (JP translates): (laughs) He says that in France there are also people with good ideas, positive ideas. What happens is that sometimes they’re more reserved people. It’s the little differences… There are things to do, many things to do and perhaps France is not so negative after all…

Uge: Do you see a difference between people’s behavior here and over there?

JP: Yes, (laughs), a big difference. Here people are more, more, euh…

Uge: Open…?

JP: More open but at the same time they’re so open that…

Uge: Do they intimidate?

JP: Yes, they make you… You don’t know if the people truely appreciate you or not, because they’re talking happily all the time… I don’t know… (laughs) To Ivan everything is the same, he says, people are the same because it’s Europe, because Europe is getting levelled out, but it’s true that there are very different characters in each European country; in Germany it’s completely different than in France. In France we think we’re more Latin than in Germany. Because Germans, well, they’re completely cold and…reserved and…they don’t scream, they don’t communicate in a loud voice…unless they’re drunk (laughs)… The same difference could be true between France and Spain. French people think that Spanish people are crazier, more party-freaks. And there’s a big difference regarding the standard of living. Here everything happens later in the day…since you wake up at a different time. Breakfast, lunch, dinner, it’s a… How d’you say that? …In France you eat lunch at noon, here lunch is at 3 in the afternoon; people go to bed here at 10 at night and at 7 over there (laughs). So, there are many differences between people’s habits and character.

Uge: JP, you’re 34 years old, you have a son, how old is he?

JP: Four years old.

Uge: …Four years old. You’re older than most of people in HardCore scene and DIY-movement. How do you look at this movement at your age? Are you starting to get tired, do you hold on to your beliefs? How do you see things at your age? Because I’m 11 years younger than you and I want to know what someone older than me thinks…

JP: Well, I break the rule a little as I said yesterday… People in this movement are very young but there are a few people of my age. It’s just to…confirm that one can have a libertarian mindset. What do I know?… Staying true to DIY all your life, no? For example: my son sometimes attends gigs, with earplugs (laughs) and he skates in front of the scene. I think that’s very good for him, as he learns many things. It’s not that I go too far with him. Because he’s a little kid and well… I’m not going to take him on tour everywhere. I’ve seen… I remember the ‘M.D.C.’ singer on tour in Europe once and he brought his son [actually the drummer’s son] that was six years old at that time. He ran everywhere. I believe that one has to stay young, nothing more. Having a young spirit, to be able to resist and to continue in this scene, because there are people that get bored and leave it… But, anyway it’s my way of being, I like this, I like the music I make and because of that I’m here.

Uge: What are your ages and how do you usually live/survive…

Steph: I’m 25 and I live… I’ve got an apartment since the 1^st of September… (laughs) It’s really really recent. And before that I used to live half in my mother’s house, half in my girlfriend’s house. And now I live in my own house.

André (JP translates): 25 years old or 26? He’s already 26 years old (laughs). He lives with his mother, sometimes he lives at his friend’s place, but all his stuff is at his mother’s house.

Ivan: I’m 25 years old and I live in a squat because the cost of the rent. It’s easier to get your own independence… That’s all. I keep doing drawings and that stuff all the time.

Uge: Even if you’re living alone or with your parents: what’s your relationship with your family, and what do they think about what you’re doing in ‘CocheBomba’, things like that?

Steph: I don’t know what my father thinks about ‘CocheBomba’ because I haven’t seen him since 2 years, but my mother really doesn’t care, she’s happy that I’m doing something that I like. Other members of the family are mostly going like: “Oh, you play in a band, that´s great!” but nothing more…

JP: Well, I don’t have a family anymore so… Not getting a criticism for what I do… But I’ve the family of my friend and they’re surprised by the fact that I play in a band and travel a lot. To them that’s a little strange. (laughs) But they look at it in a positive way: with no prejudices, no criticism.

André (JP translates): His mother understands it quite well, she’s a tolerant person. His mother’s father was Spanish and he was in the 1936 war, the civil war against Franco. He keeps on being an anarchist – together with his brothers and their mother. They understand quite well. Pseudo-anarchist, he’s not annoyed that it’s an anarchist band, he understands it quite well as he knows what it is to defend one’s ideas…

Iván: My mother doesn’t care about the music. She’s always saying it’s pure, really really annoying noise. She can’t understand it but now she’s a bit more proud because we made some records, so she believes we’re musicians now and things like this (laughs).

Uge: Do you have a serious/affective relationship? What does your partner thinks about HardCore?

Steph: My girlfriend isn’t into HardCore stuff but she’s not the only normal one in my life, you know what I mean? I guess at my work, for example, I meet a lot of people who are not into HardCore and that have different views on things…

JP: My friend is not part of the HardCore scene but she’s interested in it because she reads everything, listens to the music; she endures it. I don’t have any problem at that level; she understands it perfectly. Sometimes she attends gigs with me when she’s able to and not working. She’s very receptive. Even though she’s not part of the scene, she knows it perfectly. And she thinks that some ideas are good.

Iván: Yeah, I believe that there’s also girls that can enjoy this type of music. Like the song of ‘7 Seconds’ that goes “It’s not just boy’s fun.”. I think…even people that listen to HardCore think they’re normal also, it’s a normal thing living in those environments yeah, I think it´s normal…

André (JP translates): As he said before: it was his mother who contributed tranquility and normality (laughs)… She supports what he does but she’s not in the HardCore scene. She has listened to it and listens to metal, she knows much about metal, which is more or less similar… Noisy people…

Uge: You have a son (JP). You’re not vegetarian or vegan. I don’t know about your partner: she isn’t either…?

JP: No, she isn’t but she hates meat.

Uge: She isn’t but she hates meat? Well…I know of marriages and couples not being (or completely) vegetarian – one is vegetarian and the other one isn’t – that have a child and since they know that vegetarian/vegan food is healthier, they want their children to be well raise their kids vegetarian. How do you see this? Do you think there’s any kind of (how could I put it) problem there or do you think that when the child becomes older and reaches the age of reason there will be a confrontation between what it sees outside the home (eating meat is a normal fact) and at home? How do you balance that question?

JP: Well, what happens is that, as Steph said, he wasn’t vegetarian because he didn’t eat…

Uge: …He had problems…

JP: Nutrition-problems, he didn’t eat any food… With my son it’s a bit similar. It’s very difficult to let my son eat vegetables. I don’t know why but he doesn’t like it at all, so it’s very difficult to nourish him, feed him when he refuses much of the food I give him. For example: when he was little, a baby, I prepared mashed vegetables and things like that for him (because at that age they can’t eat meat yet) – in fact I always prepared a vegetables mixture for him, I even gave him lentils when he was one year old. I think this shouldn’t be given to children of that age, no? But since he got 2, it’s impossible to make him eat…things like cereals, beans or that kind of things. Then because it got so difficult to feed him we were obliged to give him meat, because that’s what he likes. Little by little he started enjoying the salad flavor, things like that, a bit, but it’s very difficult. Sometimes I have to stuff food into his mouth because he doesn’t want to eat it. So for the time being I don’t want to oblige him to be vegetarian or not. Maybe later I’ll explain him but he’s very little and he can’t understand the difference yet. I’ll explain him at a later time perhaps… When he develops a more regular nutritional pattern, then perhaps he can become a vegetarian. I don’t think about him becoming a vegan but becoming vegetarian would be good, good for his organism…

Uge: This is also related to your kid. It has always attracted my attention… I’m a person that tends to think much about the future. What will happen when I have a child ( in case I’ll have a child), etc. There’s always this doubt: I know the actual education-system could provide the child some good things (learning to write, read, things that are very necessary) but also some very bad things are taught. Having the responsibility of being a father – which you are: do you think you’ll send your kid to school or schooling it at home? How would you avoid the brainwashing of the education-system…? That’s a question that keeps me on edge because I wouldn’t know what to do: sending it to school, try to find an alternative school, homeschooling…? More than anything to not get it brainwashed, get shit that you won’t be able to get out of its head…

JP: Well, he is already attending school, even though he’s so little: he’s attending his third year of pre-school…

Uge: kindergarten?

JP: Yes… I don’t know, so then you start realising about all the influences the education-system can have on him, on his way of thinking. I know there are things that are very negative. I, myself, teach him Spanish – speaking, writing, he’s starting to learn. To me, the way you put this question, it’s also something that is going through my mind. I think I’ll send him to school but…finding an alternative school or a left-winged school (What do I know.), something that is different; that’s very difficult to find it in France. There aren’t any of them practically. It’s very difficult to find a place like that that is close to your place of residence anyway. There are very few anarchist or libertarian schools; it’s difficult to educate your child if you haven’t got a lot of resources so you’re forced to send it to an ‘average’ school. But of course you always… Communication with your child is the most important thing: it learns from everything in your life, all that you provide it, as a person… So I think it couldn’t be a problem then? C’mon, let’s see what will happen until when he’s 10. I think that… His mother and me, we pay him a lot of attention to give him a good education, at least at home.

Uge: Do you have a television at your house?

JP: Yes.

Uge: Do you allow him total freedom to watch whatever he wants to; is there something that you think is not good for him to watch? What do you think about all these new cartoons or TV-series for kids that show so much violence, do you think is prejudice? Do you consider what things to ‘censor’? Or what things could be harmful to him; so that you prevent him watching them or do you allow him total freedom so he can choose? How do you do it?

JP: Well, it’s difficult because he’s already having a very easy access to TV. He wakes up and searches for cartoons on TV. But well…it’s true that there are many very violent cartoons but I can’t prevent him watching that because his friends also watch them. And then I’ld be entering into… I’ld be interrupting something and later he’ll think it’s rebellious to do it and that’s not good. So I allow him the freedom to watch what he wants. Of course on his own level. No, we don’t censor or something like that, but not having a TV would be better because the kid grows up in a more healthy environment. All that is TV-related is false, no? It’s very difficult to make him understand that as a child you believe myths but only realise this when you grow up, but while it happens, you can’t censor the kid because you screw it up, you frustrate it by doing so, no? So you have to allow it a certain freedom with his own interests. Because that, perhaps, can help him get an appetite for something, other things, but really it’s true that TV is negative from A to Z. But it’s important to watch everything to be able to make a…judgment later. On his own…

Uge: What are the drugs (legal or illegal) that you take and what others you don’t take, you never take? Why?

Steph: Uhmm… I use hash and marihuana. Some coffee (laughs)… (Uge: Yeah, that´s a legal drug.) I don’t use hard-drugs nor alcohol, I don’t drink alcohol, sometimes a white wine (laughs) but without exaggerating… Why I do/don’t take these drugs? As for tobacco, I guess it’s about habits I got when I was younger and I can’t stop it because I’m an addict. But hash…I like the effects; it relaxes me, it makes me think about good or bad things. But I try not to be too dependent on drugs since I try to stay in charge of my conscience…

André (JP translates): He doesn’t consume any illegal drugs – not hash, not cannabis or anything like that, not hard drugs. He has never tried them in his life. He drinks alcohol but…without abusing it. He’s not a drunk (laughs).

Ivan: I take them for the experience, all types of drugs, yeah, legal or illegal. I like to drink, I like to smoke every day, every hour. Illegal drugs, yeah, I like to take as much as I can. It’s more for the experience, not for… Just to try different chemical drugs like heroin, cocaine or speed or hash or stuff like that.

Uge: Is there some drugs you would never take?

Ivan: Acid or drugs like XTC, stuff like that. Heroin is OK but just some times. I don’t consider myself like a drug-addict since I like to take drugs because of their effects on the mind, for the experience, but I’m not really an addict. I’m mostly addicted to tobacco but not hard drugs…

JP: I’m an alcoholic, permanent cannabis-addict, but… Well, apart from the fact that that I know cocaine quite well and the coca-paste (I come from Peru)… I don’t consume that drug in France because firstly they’re very bad, they´re diluted or… Drug-trafficking is bullshit… Well, I had a friend that is in prison now and that has stopped me from consuming that kind of drug. I’ve never tried heroin in my entire life either. I think I’ve done well. And if not, well, I’ve been used to smoking hash every day, or marihuana, since I was 13, and until now I haven’t stopped one single day (only when there’s a shortage). It’s not like without it my head would explode or I would sit around the whole day like an idiot. Or at least I try it (laughs) and, but, alcohol is the same … I like drinking alcohol every day but I don’t think I’m a negative alcoholic. Only an alcoholic that lives a regular life (big laughter). I’ve never tried drugs like XTC in my entire life either but I’ve tried tabs, and even I took a tab before a gig and… I think it gives a bad vibe. Very bad so I haven’t used acid in a long time… Little by little you realise there are certain things that damage your organism and the best thing to do is to avoid them. The same goes for cocaine too, and all these kind of similar things. Because of that I prefer to stay with my everyday habit of hash and alcohol, and well, legal drugs such as coffee or tobacco… I smoke few cigarettes at night to get relaxed before sleeping; cigarettes make me sleepy Other people stay awake because of them but they make me sleepy… As for coffee or… Since I’m in Europe I got used to drink quite a lot of coffee but, no, I’m not a coffee-addict. I’m not going to die if I don’t drink a coffee.

Uge: What do you think about junkies?

JP: Sad, it’s very sad… He knows much more about this subject…

Ivan: They’re fooled by the system; they’re dependent on a product and after they tried it they only live to take more and more drugs; I think it’s very sad…like wasting their lives…

JP: Junkies in Spain are very common, no? Everywhere… I go there have always been junkies, especially in this environment… There are people who take advantage of the HardCore-scene and squats to stay there, sell drugs; I mean consume them, and that’s very negative because it destroys things that are being constructed. Because if there are squats, they should be used for positive things and not just so people can come settle in and turn the place into a kind of New York house where they smoke crack or stuff like that. It’s very tough the junkies here…in Spain. They destroy their own lives and everything around them.

Uge: Have you thought about possible solutions regarding this? For these people? How to avoid things being destroyed by them or something like that?

JP: I don’t know if there’s a way to help these people. There are people that try to help them and give them syringes (laughs) or drug-substitutes. In the end that’s even worse because they’re already mentally in an complete imbalance. Physically, everything… I think the best way to help them…I don’t know… It’s really their strength of will that can save them. It’s very difficult to play the role of a doctor and try to save somebody when this person has already decided differently.

Ivan: I think it’s really difficult. You just can’t save junkies because they’re in the situation they wanted to be. They wanted to take drugs and…they wanted… They only can help themselves… their own will-power.

André (JP translates): It’s a situation that you really need to live, to be able to know about it. When they tell you about it it’s not the same anger you feel than when it actually happens to you. Then this… I don’t know, I don’t know what we can say to that person…

Uge: Do you think the violence towards junkies sometimes…

JP: Is necessary?

Uge: Or it is justified?

JP: I don’t think it’s necessary to be physically violent. I just think about catching him to get my money back; knowing who it is and just get him/her to agree to pay back the money or something similar. Sometimes you’ll never meet the guy/girl anymore in your life but the anger will stay. But if you’re lucky to know who it is and if you make the people close to this person/junkie to take responsibility, well you could finally do the right thing. But no, I don’t see that in a violent way, nothing would be won… Because maybe it would create bigger problems for the junkie, towards society and then it would be even worse, I think…

Uge: You’ve been together as a band for 4 years, almost 5 years. As far as I know (besides the tape) you’ve only released the split with ‘Enola Gay’ [7”; Bad Card recs, 1995] and Viva La Derelicción [recorded with André, Cécile, Ivan, J.P. & Steph; out on Bad Card recs, 1996]… That is to say a split-LP and a 7” EP: relatively not a lot of recorded material for almost 5 years. There are other bands which have been together for less time that have released many records… Why is that? Do you prefer quality over quantity? Didn’t you have the chance to release more stuff? Also tell me about the whole bunch of projects you’re going to release…

JP: What has happened is that we’ve had a certain delay releasing stuff due to musicians that left the band and so… Then we were never ready at a certain time. And when we were ready with our more stable line-up including Gork and Cristophe – six members, ‘Enola Gay’ offered us to release the split-LP; so that’s why we started releasing records since then. And nowadays we almost release one record every year. I think it’s not about releasing thousands of records – like ‘Spazz’ or ‘Agathocles’, the most popular bands (laughs). It has almost turned into a kind of musical magazine, every 15 days you can listen to a new ‘Spazz’ or new ‘Agathocles’ record. I don’t know if they really have much to say or in the end they’ll say anything to say something and release records, and have an excuse to make records. That’s not the way we see things. Just making a record for the songs on it… It’s not, like you said, the quality, the quantity, it only depends on our chances. We’re not industrial production-machines. We work according to our feelings and make things based on the feeling, nothing more. Our projects: well, since of course the monicker ‘CocheBomba’ is getting more and more well-known, the opportunities to make records come up. We now have offers for a compilation-EP on Christophe Mora’s Stonehenge recs (he released the ‘E-150’/’Ivich’ split-EP) and from Jeff of Six Weeks recs, for a compilation-LP with European bands. I also told you about a split with ‘Hellnation’ but we’re starting to get into trouble because we’ll have to make new songs – we have already recorded a 10” EP [with André, Ivan, J.P. & Steph] and it’s going to be released very soon (ed.: on Bad Card records [Poco O Nada – Just Another European Bullshit; 1997]) – so as for the ‘Hellnation’ split we’ll have depleted our repertoire… Sometimes there are songs we don’t play anymore because we don’t like them as much as we used to or music-wise the songs have lost the feeling they had. We prefer doing other things.

Uge: What does ‘derelicción’ mean?

JP: Don’t you have a dictionary? It means the same as in French.

Uge: But it’s not in the Spanish dictionary. What does it mean?

JP: It means when nothing has sense, that everything… Nobody is interested in something, everything goes…

Ivan: …When nobody cares.

JP: That is what it means… It is the guy who appears on the EP cover. We kind of see the ‘derelicción’ as no-one caring about nobody or everything going to shit. Something like that. The do-it-yourself if you don’t do it by yourself, then it goes to shit.

Ivan: ‘Derelicción’ is like a philosophical term which is linked to decadence, spiritual decadence, things like that…

Uge: OK, tell me about a book and a movie you like a lot; your favorite ones…

Ivan: Movie: Possession [1981; with Isabelle Adjani & Sam Neill] by Andrzej Żuławski. Comic: since I was a child and still my favorite, Ranx Xerox by Liberatore. Book: umpf, there are so many… I read many books but I don’t think I have a favorite one… It should be something like a novel on sociology, stuff like that…

JP: My favorite book is Las Venas Abiertas De América Latina (Open Veins Of Latin-America) by Eduardo Galeano. Film? I don´t know… There’s such a big evolution in cinema that… To mention just one film, I really dont know, but let’s say…Brian De Palma and not mention a particular one… Or Taxi Driver, or Mean Streets [both directed by Martin Scorsese].

Uge: Didn’t he direct Scarface? [Brian De Palma]

JP: Well…Mean streets is by Scorsese… The comic I choose is the same as Ivan: Ranx Xerox by Liberatore, an Italian author. It´s really, really good.

Uge: What’s the comic about?

JP: The future, with punx, destroyed people, junkies. The main character is brutal, when you see him it´s amazing…

Steph: The seventh volume of Dune [science-fiction] by Frank Herbert (ed. I didn’t understand the name too clear and I’m too fucking lazy to go to the library and check it out… Well, do it yourselves!). Movie? Ah, hard to say…

Uge: Dune? (laughter)

Steph: No, the movie isn’t very good… Perhaps Brian De Palma’s: Scarface. I like that very much. And as for comix…I don’t read too much of them…

JP: (laughter) After Ranx Xerox I’ve been impressed by Jesulín (ed. Famous Spanish bullfighter) (laughter)

André (JP translates): A French movie that is called Buffet Froid by Bertrand Blier: it’s a comedy about modern cities, about the future, completely insane people and people that are murderers and so… A book about a society that gets devastated, that disappears. There’s no more infrastructure, no more industralisation, everything is ruined. Devastating. Everything gets obliterated and nothing is left. People are forced to go back to the caveman-times (laughter)…

Uge: Did you get any trouble with the band name? Did someone ever think that you were in favor of terrorism or something like that? What do you think about ETA terrorism – you visit Euskadi quite often and you know, more or less, how things are over there? What do you think about your band name applied to reality, bomb-cars and all that?

JP: Well, we’ve never had, fortunately, any problems due to the band-name up to now. In France…people…even people from hardcore-scene don’t know what it means (laughter). Sometimes they ask or don’t, they’re not interested in knowing about the translation… As for ETA… pro-ETA, why? No, I don’t agree with the violence of this independence movement… It’s good to want to be independent, but not like this… I don’t know, using violence and all for, what do I know… I think nothing is gonna change if Euskadi turns into an independent state or not, I don’t know if they’re going to be more happy or less happy. I think it will be the same… But all the repression that exists as a reaction to this, that is the serious thing. This is done on purpose just to have people destroying themselves a bit. Josu told me there were people behaving like fascists – acting like freedom-fighters, they put on masks and beat up anybody they don’t like on the streets and things like that… Being a freedom-fighter and showing it this way, I think that’s close to fascism and very bad. I’ve read an article about the Basque Country written by a boy from French Basque Country and he said that maybe if the Franco dictatorship wouldn’t have existed, maybe Euskadi would have been…more normal. That is, this quest for independece wouldn’t have arisen in such a radical way. This argument has just helped to contribute to make war.

Fidel (just appearing): Basque nationalism always was right-winged and in the 60s the youth-branch of PNV (Nationalist Basque Party) split from PNV because they saw the PNV had a very…very ‘soft’ direction so they split and this was when they created ETA. It was from that moment on that ETA was born…

Uge: Which French hardcore bands would you recommend to Spanish people?

JP: ‘Scraps’, ‘Heimat-Los’, the first bands playing power-violence music (laughter)… And nowadays ‘Undone’ (but I think they don’t play live anymore)… ‘Öpstand’ (laughter). They’re a new band, powerful… A band we’ve recently played with and that felt like a slap in the face to us is ‘Plum’ (meaning “stinks of shit”): they play a mix of French hardcore and witchcraft or… It’s brutal; a very good band and the people in the band are…crazy, unhinged (laughter) but serious with plenty of ideas…

Uge: And any band from Spain you’ve played with…that caught your attention? Any band you didn’t know and you didn’t expect to that good?

JP: ‘Uprising’ and ‘E-150’ are the best we’ve Heard until now, aarrgghh!!! And ‘Protesta Animal’…

Uge: Last question!!! Your favourite phrase/word in Spanish…?

Iván: “Chaval!” (laughter)

Steph: “Chaval” and “Vale” (laughter)

JP: For me it’s “¡Venga!” “¡Cállate!” (laughter)… His mother says that “cállate niño mierda” (ed. Shut up shitty kid)… “Monomierda” (ed. shit monkey)… Greetings to everybody and I hope to get some letters, so we can explain better to the people who didn’t know what happened last year, so all will rest easy this way.

Jean-Pierre Davila: 46 rue Burdeau; 69001 Lyon, France

‘CocheBomba’ in Gijon, 1997